Wednesday morning I awoke to find a text from a world ranked Leader and Author, Orrin Woodward. He asked if I would be a guest on HBRN’s Leadership Factory. I am so honored to be considered for this interview. Here is the interview in it’s entirety.
Many people tell me they want to make a big difference in the world, but very few actually leave a legacy. There seems to be some sort of disconnect between wanting to change lives and a willingness to actually roll up your sleeves and jump in the muck and help somebody through it. What I mean is we have to care enough about someone to help them through struggles, by loving them unconditionally until they are ready to face truth and then when they are, lead them to it.
There are huge differences between writing an opinion online in a blog, being a motivational speaker and seeing somebody one time, coaching or therapizing someone by telling them what they are doing wrong and what they should be doing, versus actually caring enough to be somebody’s friend and to walk them through the steps over time to change their life for the better, on purpose. As well there are big differences between telling someone your opinion or a theory that you learned that you haven’t lived out in your own life successfully, coaching someone to do something you’ve seen work in others lives, maybe without being privy to all the details versus helping someone through something you have personally overcome.
The difference it would seem between wanting to be important and actually making a significant impact in someone’s life for the better is, intention. Are we doing it to feel good about ourselves or because we care more about them than we do about what we get out of it? Am I trying to be a “Big Shot” or serve them?
I’m always excited when someone wants to make a difference, when he or she wants to make a real impact. The confusion comes in understanding the dangers of coaching or mentoring someone when you don’t have a result in your own life that they can see as an example and not having developed the humility to get our own pride out of the way.
So how do we discern whether we should be someone’s encourager and sounding board or their counselor, offering truly correct advise?
1st – We must judge our own intentions!
Am I willing to be rejected while serving this person? Will I still be their friend if they don’t return friendship to me or listen to my advice? If they don’t change quickly enough will I become frustrated with them or give up on the process? Do I refer them to other people for counsel, encouragement and support? Am I reading, getting mentoring and trying to be better, so that I can serve them more effectively? Do I point out their gifts and abilities that exceed my own?
- Negative responses to any of these questions would tell me my intention (my heart) is not in the right place.
I’ve heard Orrin Woodward, world ranked leadership guru, say “if you don’t love someone, you can’t mentor them.” We cannot in good conscience counsel another if we don’t care about them and their future. This would be pretending we are God. It would be like experimenting on someone you don’t care about and if they died saying, “oh well, next.” And yet I’ve seen trained professionals do just that. We have to remember we are dealing with people’s live, relationships, livelihoods and futures. What we say to them can change everything. Will it be for the better or worse? Even well meaning is not enough.
2nd – We must ask ourselves what am I getting out of it and what do I have to offer?
Do I care about this person and their future? Do I hurt for them in what they are struggling with? Do I have results in the area that are working on? Do I have resources I can expose and refer them too? Can I give them grace for the things they have done to others or to me? Am I willing to learn, be wrong and apologize in this process.
- Negative answers to these questions would make me aware, I am not equipped to help them navigate through this struggle.
In DNA of Relationships, Gary Smalley talks about the difference between wanting to help someone and actually being their friend when they can’t return that same level of friendship. This is work, it’s many times messy and usually takes time.
3rd – Do I access a Mentor for outside perspective and insights?
If I’m not being mentored how can I really mentor someone else? I’ve heard best selling author Tim Marks say, “Judge a tree by the fruit it bears, not the fruit it talks about.” Meaning learn from someone with results. Without proven results to teach from it is easy to give advise without being able to give the correct thinking that goes with the actions. Everyone has opinions, that doesn’t make them correct. Learn to look for results in those you surround yourself with.
When I worked in the psych world I was amazed how many people confuse having a degree being licensed or even board-certified with competence. It doesn’t take a formal education to lead people, it takes a caring heart, a valuing of people, unconditional love and the courage to lead them to truth. Many people want to Learn, then teach, or just Teach what they think they know.
We Learn, then Do, then we can Teach!
There is no such thing as “efficient” in relationships. Care enough to pay the “Full Price” to have Great Relationships.
Invest Wisely – Chris Mattis
I’ve been asked, “What is the specific genius of Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and Tim Marks?” Based on what I’ve learned from them, I would say it has to be their abilities to replace themselves at will. Let me elaborate.
All of us were raised with certain paradigms, ways of thinking about our world. Some of us were raised by self-employed parents. This was my experience. Others were raised by parents employed by others. Still others had parents that didn’t create or do any work, as a way to take care of their children financially. Regardless of what example we saw growing up, that example helped shape our thinking.
By their example our parents created a legacy or pattern in our lives. Wether purposefully or accidentally, habits, limiting beliefs, and even parts of our future got created without any thought from us. All of this is true, right up until we recognize that we have a choice to create our own futures.
What if you didn’t have to be dependent on the value that others placed on you? What if you could pick new examples to learn from and re-pattern your life after? What if you discovered you could have any future you wanted?
I started out life the son of a small business owner. My father owned and operated a packaging company. He was very “independent” in his thinking. He used to say, “If You want it done right, you do it yourself.” So Dad was Pharaoh, the top of his own pyramid. His future was based on his time, effort and thinking. If he couldn’t show up he didn’t make money.
He wanted security for me, so he told me to go to school and learn to work for someone else. Now, I was “dependent” on someone else’s thinking. I was in someone else’s pyramid. My value was being set by my new master. Based on others’ thinking, my shifts, wages and working conditions were set permanently. My future and many choices were made for me. I knew where I could afford to live, the cars I could drive, what time I had to go to bed, wether my kids could have braces, what kinds of clothes I could wear. I also knew that I could not get the best medical care or afford the time or money to care for my parents if needed, etc.
As fortunate as I’ve been, many of my friends grew up relegated to what others, with no personal interest in them, had chosen for them. They grew up with parents that got by on welfare, that rarely or never worked to create something for their family. As sad as this is, for reasons such as killing the human spirit or being controlled by others through dependency on the state, it is still only a starting point, not a death sentence.
Most Americans have been raised to be “independent” (top of the pyramid), “dependent” (in the a pyramid), or worst of all, “dependent on the state” (dictated to and controlled by an unrelated, uninvested third party).
Getting around best selling author Tim Marks and listening to world ranked Leadership Guru’s Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady exposed me to a new way of seeing the world. Not through a pyramid or win/lose thinking. For the first time I understood there were win/win realities. That you could “invest” time and not sell it; you could create “inter-dependent” relationships. Where, I actually need you and you need me and together we are way more than the sum of our parts.
This is called “Replacement Driven Leadership” or “Legacy Driven Leadership.” Purposefully investing in others to create a new future and making learning a discipline in your life are key parts to this kind of leadership. Three specific shifts in thinking must occur to create a culture that moves beyond you.
1st: Learning to see others in their gifts and not through our limitations.
2nd: Identifying what makes them great and systemizing so it is a learnable, repeatable skill.
3rd: Passing ownership in someway.
First: In my Christian world view I would call it, “casting our sins upon others” when we see others in our limiting beliefs. It is however human nature to assume if I do trust people it’s someone else’s fault if I’m incompetent or lazy. I better ride others because people are flakes, etc. A common statement I hear a lot is, “I don’t have people I can trust.” So why do others have high trust relationships and incredible results? Because they’ve learned how to extend, develop and build trust. That comes from growing our own character and heart change. Once we can see the genius and potential in others the world becomes unlimited through team work.
Second: Being good at something is not enough. We have to identify why we are good something or we can’t teach it to others and leave a legacy behind us. It is an art to discover why we are good at something. This is such an important issue that in Resolved Orrin Woodward has an entire chapter dedicated to “Systemized Thinking”. Jim Collins wrote Good to Great about companies that did not know why they were good at what they did and now all those companies are gone. How the Mighty Fall, about the collapse of those same companies, by Jim Collins was jokingly retitled, aptly, by Chris Brady “Great to Gone“.
Third: Starbucks is a company that is on the edge of this issue of not knowing what makes them great. The key to their operation is not the systemized way of making coffee or the hope to be our third favorite place to be. It is their financial incentives that keep managers focused on hiring, training and promoting great people. Starbucks has, on accident, created one of the best retention programs possible. If they ever change it they will also go by the wayside.
So much of our time in the world goes into training our competition and our replacements with no long term financial gain. Many times the people we train leave us and even take our customers. What if everyone you ever trained you got paid, four or five percent of their productivity forever? That is how 95% of the worlds wealth is created. Invest time into others, systemize what they are good at and pass ownership. Launching a Leadership Revolution by Woodward and Brady is the best manual written on “Replacement Driven Leadership”.
Better Information changes Thinking and Better Thinking changes Results, Every Time!
Hope this finds You Well
Chris Mattis <><
Best selling authors Chris Brady and Tim Marks came up with a term to describe one of Leadership Guru Orrin Woodward’s many gifts, “Question Funneling.” Mr. Woodward uses this technique to help others discover what is driving an issue or a specific result in their life. The adeptness with which Orrin uses question funneling allows for self discovery, for egos to remain unruffled, and the heart of the matter to quickly and clearly be exposed.
In my personal use of question funneling I search for answers to three parts in a specific order.
1st – What is the the principal that is at stake or being violated?
2nd – How do I connect it to their heart?
3rd – What are the questions that will lead to the biggest results for that person? The most “Ah Ha’s.”
Discovering what Principal we are dealing with: Many of us convolute, cloud, attack, vilify, shut down, walk away from, manipulate, lie or any number of other behaviors with one aim … to be “right.” Wether justified in our anger, escaping blame or accountability, running from confrontation, or just getting what we want, these are all back-stories that need to sorted and, hopefully, cut through. The Question behind the Question, Competent to Counsel and the book of Proverbs in The Bible are great resources for learning to hear what’s driving the emotion.
For example: some people become upset because they are not getting attention unless they produce results. But instead of addressing their unhappiness over the lack of attention and/or their lack of results, they bring in a third party and begin vilifying that person over something entirely unrelated. This is a common relational issue between Leaders and their people.
As a leader, there are some questions to think through in your own mind first: Why are they not producing results? Why haven’t they gone to the person they are upset with? Why did they bring in another person to complain about? What are they really upset about? What are they not taking responsibility for? Why are they complaining to me? Are they trying to create division, justify their excuses, gossip, or set up something in the future? Are they just frustrated or confused? What are their intentions?
What principals are being violated? Some to consider are: Not wanting to earn something, violating conflict resolution, creating gossip, creating division, and blaming others. In other words … Are they being a Victim?
Part of the art here is discerning another’s intention, discerning your level of trust with them and discerning the weight of the issues you are dealing with. Instrument in The Redeemers Hands, The Heart of a Leader and The Great Connection are great resources to grow this discernment. The main question to ask is: What’s in it for them?
I begin with asking myself several questions: How can I help them get down to the truth? How can I help them own what is theirs? How can I help them learn to confront or grow out of the issues? How can I help them learn conflict resolution? How can I move them to repair the relationship?
The First Step is remove the outside variables. It might look like this:
What does Mr. GuyUDon’tLike have to do with the issue between You and Mr. SuccessGuy?
Why are You upset that Mr. GuyUDon’tLike gets Mr. SuccessGuy’s time?
Has he done anything You haven’t to earn that time?
Could there be reasons he gets the time with Mr. GuyUDon’tLike we don’t know about?
So Mr. GuyUDon’tLike may have nothing to do with why You aren’t getting Mr. SuccessGuy’s time?
Wouldn’t it make sense to leave Mr. GuyUDon’tLike out of our discussion? Especial since there may be factor we don’y see.
The Second Step is to get to the root of the emotion.
Where is your frustration around not getting Mr SuccessGuy’s attention?
What do You mean by it’s “not fair?”
What do You think You would have to do to get his time?
Is that something You should be doing anyway?
The Third Step is to help them take responsibility.
What can You do to change the situation?
How could You ask Mr SuccessGuy what You need to do to earn his time?
When could You ask that question?
If we care for others then we will help them sort issues down to facts. Leaders help people take responsibility, reframe thinking, and change what they can. This requires love, patients and forgiveness. Orrin Woodward’s Resolved and Ken Sande’s – The Peacemaker are excellent resources for great leaders in this area.
In order to make a difference in the lives of others, improve outcomes, increase the speed of change, and build trust, we must first step back from a situation, learn to ask ourselves great questions, and then learn to ask questions with care of others. Become great at asking yourself questions first. Then ask God for help to grow your heart enough to ask great questions of others.
Hope this serves You Well – Chris
Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady’s Mental Fitness Challengeis the single best corporate style tool I have ever seen to build unity and increase productivity in a very short period of time. Predicated on creating life-long learning habits, it works through attacking 13 areas of our lives that fall under character, task, relationships and leadership. Starting with a self assessment test, it provides a “You are Here” starting point. From there accountability partners, 360 degree feedback and challenge partners (who you can invite to take it with you), can all be setup and accessed. Feedback from people you trust can reveal blind spots that you don’t realize may be controlling the results you are getting in life. My self assessment test looks like a smallish starfish, which means no new blind spots were revealed but there are lots of areas for improvement.
Once the study of the 1st module begins, reading, audio CDs and video emails from top leaders in their fields, highlighted by the #6 Orrin Woodward and #11 Chris Brady “Leadership Gurus” in the world, support the development of new thinking and new habits. Exposure to purposeful, consistent and incremental learning allows the “Law of Compounding” to be applied to anyone’s life. For many this is the first time that they choose to wage a “Media War” on the way that they think (as opposed to the normal “Brain Washing” the average American gets from media “Programing” and control campaigns that many huge corporations and government agencies push).
Going through the “Resolutions” it occurs to me that they no longer appear as acts of the will, but as stepping stones on the way to pursuing one’s purpose. As one of the newer Mental Fitness Challengers said, ”Resolutions are Get to’s not Have to’s.” Resolutions are tools to equip us to chase our God-given dreams, to shape us into who we can be.
What a gift this MFC is to organizations of any type, to families, communities and individuals. I’ve started asking people I know to review the “Ad CD” and point me in the right direction to who or what I should share this with. My favorite question to ask is from Jim Martin, a huge community builder and leader in Florida, “Have you heard of the Mental Fitness Challenge? It’s like P90X for the brain. I want you to take it with me. When can we meet?” Don’t keep life changing information a secret, share it with anyone you care about. What a difference new information and better thinking makes! Thank you Orrin and Chris.
Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady in Launching a Leadership Revolution say “Hunger provides the energy to begin, the stamina to persist, and the will to finish…,” In talking with my mentor, Tim Marks, I have heard him say, “The world doesn’t reward potential, if only he had desire, he could be one of the greats!” What makes a man step up and focus where others quit? Circumstance? Attitude? Upbringing? No. The desire to be more; to not be controlled by the world.
I believe all men (and women) are born with an innate drive to be free; I believe it is God-given. “For You were called to freedom brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another” (Galatians 5:13 ESV) The bestseller, The Millionaire Next Door, noted that the majority of new millionaires in the US are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. What would drive a person to cross an ocean, learn a new language, learn a new culture, leave everything they know behind, start over from zero to work long hours, scrimp and save? Desire for a better life, for an opportunity, for hope!
Here is one of my favorite quotes of all time:
“Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.”
- Calvin Coolidge 30th president of United States of America
So how do we develop “Desire” / “Hunger”?
One key to recognize, as Lana Hamilton says, “We are powerless to change anything we tolerate.” We must become intolerant of our circumstances. What are the things that we put up with that we shouldn’t? What are the areas we “settle for?” Where are we merely mediocre when we should be exceptional?
After a decade and a half in the psychiatric nursing field I was shocked at what I tolerated, in retrospect. I was laid-off once, pay-cut twice, pay frozen for four years, received IOU’s, instead of checks, forced to work fur-low days, yearly cuts in benefits, huge losses in my retirement account and was injured 17 times. Why did I put up with that? Frankly, I hoped it would change.
No wonder I found it funny when I read this:
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein
A second way to grow your hunger is to develop the discipline on dreaming. “You never get what you want out of life, you only get what you focus on!” That is one of my favorite truisms. So how do we create and have hope in the midst of challenging circumstances? Do we focus on problems or solutions? A dream must be bigger than who we are currently and big enough to make us want to grow. Tim Marks is famous for teaching this basic principal: “Define what you out of life, figure out the cost and pay the price!” “Define, Learn, Do” is a LIFE and TEAM basic tenant. So what does your “ideal” life look like? Who is it you’re supposed to be?
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” - Wayne Gretzky
It is crucial to decide where you want to go, what you want to accomplish, and most importantly, who you wish to become in the process! What could you do if you dedicated the next five years, the next ten years or the rest of your life to it??? Remember: You were born for a purpose and only you can do what only you can do. Don’t waste time not doing it, Do It Now!!!
- Chris Mattis
“Good Friends help You move, Great Friends help You move a body” – Anonymous. A ridiculous example of Friendship and Loyalty, but I does bring up a point. Namely “Friends” do not sit in judgment of or speak ill of each other and fiercely defend the character of the other. Why do friends defend each other? – They know each other’s hearts, their intentions and the purposes to which they are dedicated.
Grace and patiencs are other great attributes of Friendship. Seriously, are we someone’s friend if we take offense to them being busy, short or just plain living life? One of my “Best” Friends in the world, he and I have know each other since the “Play Pen”, have wondered in and out of each other lives for decades now. Yet each time we talk or do something, even if it’s been years, it was as if we saw each other yesterday. This is a guy I trust with my kids, house, cars, money and to give me honest feedback.
I have watched some of my Heroes, (Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and Tim Marks) befriend those that judge them, use them and malign them. Yet they keep aiding them in the pursuit of their goals and loving them in their mistakes. This is so uncommon in our world.
A common confusion in our current media driven society is that an acquaintance (someone you are around or hang around) is a friend. Friendship has nothing to do with hanging out, sharing non-creating experiences, making “you’re not doing what I think you should be doing” judgments or thinking ”what can I get from you”. I hear a lot of “I want you to be my friend” whining in our world. “Serve me”, “take care of me”, “make me feel special”, guilt inducing actions and words followed by “but I’m not interested in serving you!” self-centeredness. When did popularity replace significance?
This reminds me of a situation that a very close friend of mine went through. One of his college buddies was giving him grief because his new family was getting in the way of “Guy Time” (Drinking & Hanging Out). Then the “frat brother” started to pick at him for starting a side business he didn’t believe in. Finally after attacking my soft hearted friend with critical emails asking, “what happened to my friend, my hang buddy?”, he shot back, “I have a family to take care of, debt to pay, a wife to provide for and a future to build! I grew up! I recommend you do the same!”
Two great measuring sticks of who is my friend (not who likes me): 1 – Who would pick you up at 3am two hours from home? 2 – Who encourages you and believes in you, regardless of whether or not they understand the dream you are chasing? A friend will either join you or encourage you in pursuing your God-given dreams!
Clearly by these definitions I have eliminated most people, even my family, from the “True Friend” list. This was epitomized in a conversation I had a few years ago with an older relative. It occurred at a family event where I was asked what I had been doing the last several years. I responded by giving the general details and the hoped-for outcome of my efforts. In response this family member began to verbally vomit warnings, fears and doubts on me. I placed my hand in front of his face and said, “STOP! We are only limited by our own thinking and I cannot afford to be limited by yours.” He pointed out that he had wisdom (none, of course in the areas in which I work). Then he tried to justify his actions by saying that he was playing “Devil’s advocate” (I have plenty of devils in my life and I don’t need to be related to one!). Then he sarcastically asked if he should be a “cheerleader”, to which I pointed out I could ALWAYS use another encourager!
We have to decide to BE someone’s friend. This would mean serving and ministering to them. I remember the day I chose to be Tim Marks’ friend. This was not required to get his counsel (acting on that counsel would be key), to have him help me through struggles (if I worked at fixing them) or being around him in business. I have seen Tim serve many people who don’t like him, take him for granted or even don’t respect him. I have watched Orrin and Chris do the same and even go so far as to create opportunities for such people to grow and be recognized. Yet people get upset when they can’t interrupt their lives at will. Or worse, they whine and make excuses because they didn’t want to grow up in an area, so it must someone else’s fault. Let’s blame “Mommy and Daddy” or the closest likeness. Orrin, Tim and Chris are Impressive examples of Friends.
Two-way friendships are a matter of Heart, not Time. Sadly most friendships are not two-way. this is not a big deal if, you believe that “it is better to Give than to Receive.” So we need to check our motives, serve without expectation of return, forgive false friends and thank God for the real ones.
I hope this finds You well – Chris Mattis
When I was younger I though everyone was my friend. In reality ,”hoped” would be a more accurate word. As I grew and wanted people to like me, I had many disillusionments around friendship. Many times thinking, if only I were a better friend others would treat me well.
It is strange to me now how blind I was to the differences between being liked and being trusted. As well as being someones friend vs being friends with someone. Why I say blind is that I was trained for and worked in psychiatric nursing, I was a follower of Christ and I had been studying leadership, all for many years and still I could not see the differences.
It wasn’t until I got around Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and Tim Marks that I became aware of the principals and qualities that make up a “Friend”, “Friendship” and “Being a Friend” to others. I watched these men serve each other, stand by each other, hold each other accountable, give each other grace, and love each enough to give correction, not criticize, tear down or destroy. It was so evident of what true Leaders they are, and made me painfully aware the world was sorely lacking men that really Lead.
The more I was around these men and their amazing wives, through their writings “Launching a Leadership Revolution” Brady & Woodward (Best Seller form Time Warner), http://orrinwoodwardblog.com/ , http://chrisbrady.typepad.com/ , http://timmarks.com/blog/ and many other books and articles, through their CDs I listened to (now on a LIFE Subscription), watching them at Leadership seminars and online http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvaCeoSM6Ew and finally getting to know and work with them, the more I became clear they were different. In reality “better” would be a more accurate word.
I believe today we are called to be a friend to others regardless of it being returned. Serving others in times of need, helping people back up, encouraging people to do and become their very best, seeing the best in them and pointing it out, holding their feet to the fire around actions, words and choices – these are just a few of the facets of real friendship. “A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.” – Proverbs 17:17 ESV, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.” – Proverbs 27:6 ESV.
If you find yourself taking care of others more than is returned to you, take heart and be glad YOU are a Friend. And if you find others asking for you to “be their Friend” rejoice but do not be fooled thinking they want to take care of you as well. And if you find yourself being cared for by another be Grateful for You have found a True Friend and You are Blessed indeed!
- Chris Mattis